OscailtFounding of Common Cause - OntarioNew Anarchist Communist Organization in Canada2007-10-11T23:12:35+08:00Anarkismoanarkismoeditors@lists.riseup.nethttp://www.anarkismo.net/atomfullposts?story_id=6553http://www.anarkismo.net/graphics/feedlogo.gifSocialist Party of Canadahttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68102007-10-11T23:12:35+08:00a johnstoneajsc21755 at blueyonder dot co dot ukAny effort to increase workers awareness for a new society - a commonwealth - ha...Any effort to increase workers awareness for a new society - a commonwealth - has to to be viewed favourably . I hope your endeavours has the success that many previous attempts have failed to achieve.<br />
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Yet in the back of my mind there exists those discomforting echoes that in your statements there exists just that little bit of the vanguardism of the Leninist-Trotsykist. <br />
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"We defend grassroots anti-imperialist movements" ..., how different is this from all those on the Left who offer support and succour to national bourgeoisies such as the Islamic fundamentalist resistance of Iraq or to the ex-Baathists in the name of anti-imperialism ( a term that has not quite been defined and in danger of simply being a re-hash of Lenin's ).<br />
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Again , not too far adrift from the accepted Trotskyist tactic of entryism is your statement :- <br />
"work within these movements, in order to promote anarchist methods of organization involving direct democracy and direct action"<br />
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I wonder just how this is compatable with the maxim that workers struggles should be determined and controlled by those actually involved and not by outside interference , except , of course , on the simple principle of support and solidarity and the practical logistical help that can be offered .<br />
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I may be over critical and apologies if i am over emphasising ambiguities in your statement . <br />
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I see the problem that yourselves and we of the free-access socialist movement face , is that the working class do not require to be instructed on the class struggle , something they must learn and do learn in the course of their of their daily lives without the lecturing and hectoring of political groups , but that there is a necessity to discover the lessons of such struggles - that it will be a never ending class war unless it is taken to the next level - ie changing present society for a new society . <br />
Again , here , a slight disappointment that there was such little elaboration on what type of world is required and desired in your statement . <br />
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In the words of the Socialist Party of Canada <br />
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" ...in order to fit themselves for this task the workers must acquire the consciousness which alone can enable them to do so. This consciousness must comprise, first of all, a knowledge of their class position. They must realize that, while they produce all wealth, their share of it will not, under the present system, be more than sufficient to enable them to reproduce their efficiency as wealth producers. They must realize that also, under the system they will remain subject to all the misery of unemployment, the anxiety of the threat of unemployment, and the cares of poverty. They must understand next the implications of their position – that the only hope of any real betterment lies in abolishing the social system which reduces them to mere sellers of their labor power, exploited by the capitalists. <br />
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“They will see then, since this involves dispossessing the master class of the means through which alone the exploitation of labor power can be achieved, there must necessarily be a struggle between the two classes – the one to maintain the present system of private (or class) ownership of the means of living and the other to wrest such ownership from them and make these things the property of society as a whole. This is the struggle of a dominant class to maintain its position of exploitation, on the one hand, and of an enslaved and exploited class to obtain its emancipation, on the other. It is a class struggle. <br />
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“A class which understands all this is class-conscious. It has only to find the means and the method by which to proceed, in order to become the fit instrument of the revolution.” <br />
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<a href="http://www.worldsocialism.org/canada/ws33.class.struggle.htm">http://www.worldsocialism.org/canada/ws33.class.struggle.htm</a><br />
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The new issue of the SPC journal , Imagine , 100 years of Socialism and articles on the 1919 Winnipeg General Strike can be read at :-<br />
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<a href="http://www.worldsocialism.org/canada/spchdr.htm">http://www.worldsocialism.org/canada/spchdr.htm</a>For Anarchist Internationalismhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68162007-10-12T20:10:25+08:00UK"We defend grassroots anti-imperialist movements"
I'm afraid I have to agree ..."We defend grassroots anti-imperialist movements"<br />
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I'm afraid I have to agree with the comrade from the SPGB, this is plain and simple leftism and it would be a pity for a promising anarchist organisation in North America to go down the road of unqualified support for nationalist bourgeois gangsters who have nothing do with class struggle politics.Pink on the map dear boyhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68172007-10-13T01:29:39+08:00MakhnoGood to see the tradition of Empire socialism is alive and well in the 'United' ...Good to see the tradition of Empire socialism is alive and well in the 'United' Kingdom of 'Great' Britain. Your fine socialist advice to the lesser peoples in the colonies is as always appreciated. We have heard about the magnificant movement you fine subjects of Mrs Windsor have built and are keen to follow your example.Who put the "Great" in Great Britainhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68232007-10-14T22:25:19+08:00ajohnstoneajsc21755 at blueyonder dot co dot ukNo need to go into all the inherent political contradictions that can be derived...No need to go into all the inherent political contradictions that can be derived from Mahkno's short , witty ( ? ) post but just to add a bit trivia , this from wikipedia .<br />
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"...Great Britain may well be a translation of the French term Grande Bretagne, which is used in France to distinguish Britain from Brittany (in French: Bretagne)..."To Makhno -http://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68302007-10-16T21:06:16+08:00UKI'm sorry to hear that you feel oppressed by comments I and other anarchists on ...I'm sorry to hear that you feel oppressed by comments I and other anarchists on the other side of the Atlantic may make. Clearly I didn't take into account the rampant British imperialism that is currently ravaging your nation, something that "we" are all a part of. We will refrain in future from any political criticism of decisions anarchists in Canada choose to make.problematic issues with the comment, not with statementhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68312007-10-17T13:17:14+08:00José Antonio GutiérrezFirst of all, I'll start by saying that the discussion of the relationship betwe...First of all, I'll start by saying that the discussion of the relationship between class struggle and other forms of oppression (ie, national oppression and anti-imperialist struggle in this case) has been given at some lenght in another thread, so there's no need of repeating the same discussion once again here: <br />
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<a href="http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=6204">http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=6204</a><br />
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In relation to Johnstone's question<br />
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"We defend grassroots anti-imperialist movements" ..., how different is this from all those on the Left who offer support and succour to national bourgeoisies such as the Islamic fundamentalist resistance of Iraq or to the ex-Baathists in the name of anti-imperialism"<br />
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I think it is necessary to say that this is actually replied in the very sentence Johnstone calls to question -unless the word "grassroots" does not have any sensible meaning to you.<br />
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There's certainly an abuse of wording in Johnstone's post- mentioning frequently resemblances with leninism, it is not clear in what specific ways this may be the case. Even the accusation of entryism is wrong, as this term applies particularly to entering other leftist parties and its rendered absolutely meaningless when it comes to grassroot movements or organisations -or anarchists proposing to enter trade unions should be considered entryism also?<br />
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On tactics, Johnstone objects our comrades saying that they will promote anarchists ideas and practices in the social movements by saying that "the working class do not require to be instructed on the class struggle , something they must learn and do learn in the course of their of their daily lives without the lecturing and hectoring of political groups". This is old fashioned and meaningless spontaneism. If the working class (in abstract, taking without historical perspective and assuming that revolutionaries come from Mars) wouldn't require the active involvement of the revolutionary movement to achieve revolutionary goals, then revolutionary agitation, propaganda and organisation would be futile. Would there be any point for a Socialist Party of "Great" Britain to exist?<br />
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The truth is that revolutionary organisations are part of the working class, they exist because they represent accumulated experience by the working class in the course of class struggle (so there's no need to reinvent the wheel time and again) and we are quite willing to assume the humble role of representing a libertarian point of view amongst and as part of the oppressed and exploited. The anarchist position has been matured in a long history of sacrifices and hard learned lessons -there's no need for each individual generation of workers to go again through the same failures, mistakes and hardships. If we can't learn from our own history, if we cannot pass experience from one generation to another, we are doomed to make the mistakes all the time. This does not invalidate the process by which individual workers arrive to similar conclusions or by which theory expands and is in a constant process of development thanks to practice. <br />
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Last but not least: it is funny to see how Mr."UK" and Johnstone resort to, maybe unconsciously, defending their national identity (whether defending the concept of "Great" Britain or assuming a defensive position on the UK's quite obvious imperialist credentials). The truth is that Makhno in his witty comment -at least I giggled with it- has quite a fair point. It is much easier to deny the importance of anti-imperialist struggle when you are living in the invading and not the invaded country. Maybe if Mr."UK" was instead Mr."Iraq" things would look slightly different. Imperialist ideology takes a firm root in the frame of mind of vast sectors of the population of imperialist countries (talk to your average French, English or US worker and you will check this out), and denying the importance of anti-imperialism could be reflecting partially this. In the same way as it is easier for males in the left to deny the importance of women's issues. This is natural and no one is free from the influence of bourgeois ideology- the problem is to let it pass unchallenged. But this has been discussed in the link given above and it is not my intention to repeat the same arguments here.Grassroots anti-imperialismhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68342007-10-18T06:10:29+08:00a johnstoneajsc21755 at blueyonder dot co dot ukSimply to clarify some things .
I take it , Jose , that you and Makhno are ...Simply to clarify some things . <br />
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I take it , Jose , that you and Makhno are members of Common Cause .<br />
( I have nailed my political colours to the mast , after all . ) <br />
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And yes i do think that a term such as "grassroots anti-imperialism" requires some elaboration , simply tacking on "grassroots" doesn't make it so . <br />
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Perhaps , for just my better understanding , can you offer some actual examples of such grassroots anti-imperialism movements that require to be defended by anarchists . <br />
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My own view on anti-imperialism can be found at my blog link .grassroots movementshttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68352007-10-18T06:59:58+08:00José Antonio GutiérrezI'll clarify for a start that I'm no member of CC. In fact, I don't even live in...I'll clarify for a start that I'm no member of CC. In fact, I don't even live in Canada so my contributions should not be taken as necessarily reflecting the views from CC.
<p> Surely a term like 'grassroots' can't be taken for granted and requires further elaboration. Whenever you have a situation of imperialist domination you have the downtrodden rebelling against this form of imposition without necessarily compromising with the local elite. Thus was the position of both Korean and Cuban anarchists during the struggle against Japanese and Spanish colonial rule, respectively.
<p> Although it is true that most of the national liberation movement have been hegemonized by bourgeois nationalism this fact does not undermine the justice of anti-imperialist struggle per se; and you'll see popular organisations carrying extremely heoric struggles against occupations in such distant places as Haiti or Palestine. Indeed, the best example I can think of anti-imperialist grassroots movement is the struggle against the wall in Bil'in, from where we were receiving for long weekly reports. Surely there are more, but the important thing is not to confuse anti-imperialist struggle with the nationalist elite which has traditionally hijacked it.leftism?http://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68362007-10-18T08:23:08+08:00NilWow, it's been a while since I visited here, but when did "plain leftism" become...Wow, it's been a while since I visited here, but when did "plain leftism" become an insult on a site that describes itself as representing the anarchist-communist tradition!Well anyone can posthttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68392007-10-19T02:36:31+08:00AndrewAnyone can post here so from time to time you get people who think calling peopl...Anyone can post here so from time to time you get people who think calling people leftist is an insult. Often they are US conservatives, sometimes they are west coast 'post leftists' and this crop appears to be British 'lets ignore imperialism' socialists - the sort that have always found comfort in the assertion that rebellion in the colonies is no better than rule from London. <br />
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The reality is that almost any anti-imperialist struggle will include grassroots organizations and tendencies which identify working class liberation as part of their struggle. RAWA would provide a relevant example in relation to the ongoing example of Afghanistan. Anarchists need to critique that perspective because the outcome of such anti-imperialist struggles is often (but not always) one that leaves a faction of the old ruling class in charge and a new deal with imperialism. But the idea that we should ignore such tendencies or pretend such outcomes are inevitable really only makes 'sense' in a context where you fear challenging the pro-imperialist attitudes which are often popular in the working class of imperialist states. Anywhere a large section of the working class accepts the big nation imperialist rhetoric of its ruling class you will find a left that finds some theoretical justification to drop anti-imperialism from its program.<br />
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Canada has troops occupying Afghanistan and and also has an internal colonial relationship towards the indigenous population within the borders of the Canadian state. It would seem a requirement of an Ontario anarchist organisation that they take a position in opposition to this. It has very real effects on working class organization and solidarity in Ontario and in Afghanistan, how could it just be ignored?Berlin , Moscow or Warsaw - why cares ?http://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68472007-10-20T17:17:27+08:00AJOHNSTONEajsc21755 at blueyonder dot co dot uk"...This crop appears to be British 'lets ignore imperialism' socialists - the s..."...This crop appears to be British 'lets ignore imperialism' socialists - the sort that have always found comfort in the assertion that rebellion in the colonies is no better than rule from London." - Andrew <br />
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And to which i counter-pose this quote to point out that anti-anti-imperialism has a long INTERNATIONAL history and is not simply the preserve of some sort of alleged psychological adherence to imperialist ideology by some Brits . <br />
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" To oppose imperialism demanded, then a total rejection of all forms of nationalism, even that of the victims of imperialist aggression. Nationalism and imperialism were inseparable and had to fought with equal fervor. " - Paul Mattick on Rosa Luxemburg . ( <a href="http://www.kurasje.org/arkiv/2000t.htm">http://www.kurasje.org/arkiv/2000t.htm</a> )Bit selective?http://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68482007-10-20T22:43:36+08:00AndrewYour being a bit selective in choosing to reply as if I'd said it was only the ...Your being a bit selective in choosing to reply as if I'd said it was only the British left that suffers from this curious blindness. As I already pointed out although the condition is perhaps best known amongst the British left because of the British states long and once global imperial history it is a general condition found in sections of the left that are organising where workers are under the influence of their states imperialist ideology. Its a theoretical justification for not having to take what can be an unpopular stance.
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And in this thread both you and the other guy (who actually called himself UK!?!?!) simply repeat standard imperialist propaganda that the only alternative to their rule is some as bad or worse. This in case you have not noticed is the justification your state uses for its continued occupation of Iraq.Populism ? Opportunism ?http://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68502007-10-21T19:00:42+08:00ajohnstoneajsc21755 at blueyonder dot co dot uk"...a theoretical justification for not having to take what can be an unpopular ..."...a theoretical justification for not having to take what can be an unpopular stance..." Andrew <br />
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Andrew , are you being serious ? That the SPGB determine their political positions from a premise of what is popular with the working class. . <br />
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You have to be joking , Andrew , and a review of the SPGB's history would demonstrate just how wrong you are . The SPGB has hardy succumbed to populist opportunism to gain support or attract members . Our politics are a bit more principled than that. <br />
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Nor would i say that you are empirically correct with your judgement about the Left political scene . Again , a brief survey of the British Left or those of USA , France Spain Italy Germany ( excluding the incumbent Labour /Social Democratic Parties ) would reveal almost a 100% subscription to some form of anti-imperialist theory . And the SPGB anti-nationalist and criticism of anti-imperialism has often made us somewhat political pariahs to those on the Left and Right . <br />
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.at the heart of it...http://www.anarkismo.net/article/6553#comment68992007-10-29T08:44:09+08:00Global Dissidentreid9001 at gmail dot comAll self critical semantics aside, this is a great idea. I hope Common Cause bec...All self critical semantics aside, this is a great idea. I hope Common Cause becomes a major player in the Ontario radical scene. I hope to see a few members in downtown London, Ontario this May Day.