Cape Town: Block the USS Theodore Roosevelt from Docking

by NotInAgreement Wed Oct 01, 2008 22:49

As much as you have every right to object to this vessel visiting South African waters, I would encourage you to worry about far more important things like poverty, unemployment and corruption. The brief visit by this vessel to South Africa has virtually no bearing on the these important problems that are facing South Africa today. They are considerably more important than this ship's visit.

No-one who is truly well-informed about contemporary affairs will have any interest in objecting to this ship's visit.

Sort out the real problems we face, and will continue to face until the government prioritises job creation, good governance and individual responsibility.

by Jon - ZACF (personal capacity) Wed Oct 01, 2008 23:25

And I assume you consider yourself truly well-informed about contemporary affairs then?

You're missing the bigger picture, and that is that South Africa does not exist in a politico-economic vacuum. The corruption, poverty and unemployment you rightly raise as important concerns are the result of a world economic system (capitalism) - in which the US is a major player. It is a world economic system propped up by state violence and military aggression, and by accommodating this vessel - an agent of US imperialism - the South African government shows its complicity in this system.

As the statement mentioned, it was from this exact ship that the invasion against Iraq was launched. An invasion which, amongst other things, affected the price of oil and therefore the entire world economy. So, although the ships visit to South African waters might not have much immediate bearing on the important problems you mention in South Africa, it's very existence and the purpose it serves certainly does.

And, as a word of caution, I would not place too much hope in the government - under Motlanthe, Zuma or anyone else - solving the problems you've mentioned. As already noted, the South African government - in fact all governments - are complicit in the economic system that relies on poverty, unemployment and corruption for its very existence.

Look a bit deeper.

by jab2 Thu Oct 02, 2008 17:25

Well, I would say that the bleak economic picture facing Africa is not really due to capitalism as you would believe, but due to the inability of Africa's inhabitant to look past hand-outs and try and comprehend how money is made.

If my neighbor work 18 hours a day and I keep myself entertained by sitting in the sun all day, is it my neighbor's fault that I am in a poorer financial state than him?

I am fully in agreement with the first poster that the visit of this ship in of minute importance, seen against the other problems we have in this country.

by Marlon Thu Oct 02, 2008 19:14

I think you are over reacting, and paranoid schizophrenic. No one is out to get you.
If you feel this way, then we should have ruined the airshow for the thousands of aircraft enthusiasts too, because there were american planes among the displays.
I agree with the original commentor, worry about more pressing issues, like crime and drunk drivers. Both are far more volatile. Im not contributing to a flame war here, it's just my opinion, but to me this ship means a nice photographic outing and not an intimidation.

Or like the phrase says, if you have nothing to hide, you should not be affraid.

by PoliticallyAware Sat Oct 04, 2008 02:04

I have absolutely no problem with USS Theodore Roosevelt docking in Cape Town for a week and neither should anyone else. I am in no way a warmonger but I get sick and tired of hearing about how evil the United States is. Yes, I certianly do not agree with everything their government chooses to do-the invasion of Iraq for instance, but if you're going to criticise, please be balanced about it. After 9/11, the United States (as a sovereign country, it has the legal right to defend itself against external aggression) decided to fight against terrorism in Afghanistan. Nowhere does your article mention Al -Qaeda (which was mainly based in Afghanistan) and its evils. Some countries are clearly jealous of the fact that the United States as a hegemon is politically and militarily powerful. Lastly, I'm aware that it is preferrable to resolve conflict diplomatically but unfortunately it is not always possible.

by navy wife Sat Oct 04, 2008 21:36

I understand your worry, however the roosevelt is not there to cause any problems, my husband has been on the ship for well over a month now, these guys really want to get off that ship and have a good time, spend money in the beautiful city and try and so some community work as our graditiude for allowing us to port there. Please remeber, the people you are angry at are loved ones just as you are to someone. This is our first time away from each other and while I do not agree with many things our goverment does here in the US, I must support my husband and pray that he returns home to me and our children.

by dee1949 - African Horizon Futures Sat Oct 04, 2008 21:40 africanhorizon at com24seven dot co dot za

Bla,bla,bla,bla ; South Africa is a sovereign democratic country and as such, would welcome any foreign warship and it's crew as we would tourists from all over the world. Welcome "TR" - We are also a Western orientated country which affords us the freedom and lifestyle so many of us enjoy. It would be politically incorrect for any minority grouping or religious belief to dictate, demand or prescribe policy and it would appear as if this article originated out of general anti US sentiment which is (generally) a Muslim thing. We can't seem to place our moral obligations on our own doorstep, we step back and watch the carnage and mayhem in Zimbabwe - innocents will all suffer as they have and many would welcome the intervention of Military action there - perhaps the Theodore Rooseveld should be part of an initiative to oust Mugabe once and for all.

by concernerd navy wife Sun Oct 05, 2008 02:20

I am a navy wife of a sailor aboard the Roosevelt.. I am very concerned that the date they are leaving is listed on your web site. This is a BIG security issue to me. I know many don't want us over there. Apparently the individuals that approved this to happen lookd at everything situation that could possibly happen and took it into consideration and came up with no problem. I would appreciate it if when posting certain information about any Naval ship, that you take in consideration the men, women and their families that are associated with it. Please don't look at it a a mass object that may/may not nuclear weapons. If you look at it a little personal maybe just maybe some things that you post would not be posted.

Concerned wife

by mark Sun Oct 05, 2008 16:39

The Bush empire is a international terrorist orginisation. Its weapon of mass distruction is not welcome to our fair Cape. GO HOME

by lycan Sun Oct 05, 2008 17:53

yes i'm certain the US held a gun or a nuclear carrier to the heads of those who decided to steal money from their own people to line their greedy pockets. I'm certain that the US threatened us to celebrate 10 years of democracy by throwing a R60 million party , money which might have been better spent on housing etc! Instead of blaming others, lets take responsibility and act!

by navymom Tue Oct 07, 2008 14:35

As the mother of a sailor abroad that carrier, I am saddened that many feel this way toward the TR. My son was so looking forward to getting off that carrier and spending money! And just to be able to visit your beautiful city. I am concerned about their safety. They are not there to make any trouble. I would hope that those who are in support of them being there will enjoy this historic visit. I sincerely wish you all well.

A navy mom

by Shaheed Mahomed - Workers International Vanguard League Tue Oct 07, 2008 21:27 wivl at sn dot apc dot org 1st Floor, Community House, 41 Salt River rd Salt River 7925 South Africa 27 21 4476777

We are part of the organisers of the protest and want to assure you that we are not opposed to the American worker at all; those who join the army probably need the money. However perhaps your son can plead ignorance of the true role of the USS Theodore Roosevelt; perhaps he really thinks he is fighting 'terrorism'. The truth however is the opposite. There are numerous examples we could use but think about the following:

1. Many raids launched from this ship have killed many innocent people in Afghanistan; we think here for example, the wedding party of 40 that was bombed to smithereens from operations from this ship. How do you explain to the six year old survivor from this massacre that your son just carried out orders because he needed a job and the money?
2. The illegal (in terms of the UN) invasion of Iraq was launched on 16 March 2003 from this ship; today the people are ruled by a pro-imperialist puppet who has just awarded oil contracts to Exxon Mobil, BP, Shell and Chevron. This seizing of the oil assets was nothing else but priacy of the worst order.

If your son was true to democratic principles (if he survives the irradiation from the nuclear weapons on the ship) he should band together with other soldiers, refuse the commands of the superiors and to join the massive anti-war movement in the US. you are also welcome to contact us directly:
capetownantiwar@gmail.com

by lycan Tue Oct 07, 2008 22:26

This is war and horrible and terrible mistakes are made, but this is not SOP of the US military, we need to understand how these terrorists and insurgents fight, they often use human shields and run into populated areas, they walk into a market and blow themselves and their "own" people up, yes some atrocities have been comitted by US soldiers but you'll actually find that this is the exception and not the rule,!!!
"The 2003 Invasion was Illegal. Only according to some in the UN. By that standard, the invasion of Kosovo and bombing of Serbia in 1999 was also illegal. Saddam was already at war with the U.S. and Britain, because Iraq had not carried out the terms of the 1991 ceasefire, and was trying to shoot down coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone."

by Shaheed - WIVL Wed Oct 08, 2008 17:51

The commander of the TR said that they were here to counter piracy, drug smuggling and illegal fishing. Can you just imagine how ridiculous it is for the TR to be chasin around survivalist fisherfolk in small dingies, and shooting nuclear missiles at them. Do you really think that these fisherfolk, who are prevented by government from taking out a catch to feed their families, being a threat to world peace? The fundamnetal point here is that US imperialism is hoping to openlu have joint military missions with the SA military across the globe. We can refer you to the John Pilger website and that of John Stiglitz, both by no means radicals, who can show you the true role of the US military as the instrument of violence by the US monopolies against the working class of the world.

The CIA has a long history of drug smuggling and used druigs to break the rsistance of the black panther youth in the 1970's.

Have you ever wondered why no evidence of aircraft engines were found in the wreckage of the 'attack' on the Pentagon (9-11)? I saw the video footage - it was a missile and not a plane that crashed into the Pentagon. Monopoly capital has used fabricatrions, even attacked their own forces, to justify war. This is the reality of the current era. You should believe less CNN and Fox, and try to get to the truth of the issues.

Glib explanations may be sufficient for yourselves, who live in luxury of the exploitation of the world masses; but they don't hold water here. The irony of the matter is that we need the US working class to wake up so that the world can be set free. (Instead of allowing themselves to be the shocktroops of terror).

by lycan Wed Oct 08, 2008 20:32

Yes i agree that it would be ridiculous to shoot nuclear missiles at fisherman, but then i don't think that's what they'll be doing...do you? ;) Perhaps they are not refering to the local fisherman but instead the bigger fishing vessels that come from China etc? Remember China did try and send weapons to Zim!
Terrorism is not a new thing and it was on the rise before 9-11, Madrid, London ect! I don't know for sure what hit the pentagon, but i have watched Home video footage from a friend that was near the WTC on that day...I do watch other media besides fox and CNN, that i can assure you! Would a democracy in the East benefit the US, absolutely, but make no mistake it is benefiting the majority of people in Iraq aswell, with the exception of the few Sunni insurgents ( not freedom fighters btw ), who were the enforcers of saddams police state and enjoyed the benefits of his rule! They are finding it hard to intergrate and share power!
Afterall, people don't believe that all moslems are terrorists...right? Well not everything the US does is evil. That being said, I do agree about waking up, but we all need to wake up, and take responsibility in our own land. As much as we are open to believing what we read so to are those who disagree, we are all open to propaganda, just because it sounds nice and right doesn't make it any less of a threat or open to manipulating peoples thoughts and perceptions.
Saddam exploited his own people, The Taliban too, Is Mugabe exempt from his exploitation? Is Zuma exempt? Is Yengeni? The US military blew the whistle on Haliburton! Do you know about OPEC? Who funds terrorist organisations? Who beheads and murders, not only foreign aid workers but their own people too? ( probably won't see that on CNN)

I don't completely agree with the war, but i do support the good soldiers and the good things that are being done and appreciated by the majority of people in Iraq, despite what we think, America was actually within her rights to go to A-stan and Iraq.

Instead we should be protesting against koeberg or making sure that those xenephobic attacks never happen again, or wondering why Tutu won't be voting!!

by Shaheed Wed Oct 08, 2008 21:52

We have been fighting imperialism here for many years and still oppose their puppets like Tutu and Zuma. Big capital has kept us in starvation. US imperialism plays its role: most of the gold mines are controlled by the bank of New york; The Reserve bank here is controlled by JP Morgan Chase; the list of crimes by all monopolies in SA (not only American) are endless; they supported and armed the apartheid regime. JP Morgan Chase controls one of the biggest monopolies in SA_ Anglo American; these interests is what the US military protects; yes halliburton was exposed but other monopolies benefitted; how fo you explain a 1trillion dollar military budget for the next year- for promoting democracy? What gives the US government the right to determine what is democracy? I know of no instance where intervention by the US military has led to control by the people. It's shows just how brainwashed you are. It's good to look at alternative media but you still have some way to go. Have you read 'Confessions of an economic hitman" What a pity that a nation that has come to being on the basis of a revolution now spreads counter-revolution, death and destruction throughout the world.

It's clear you have never travelled outside of the US. Go to the DR or come to South Africa or go to Iraq and see for yourself what the people say.

If you do come to South Africa, let us know so that we can take you on a tour of the multitude of squatter camps.

greetings

by Lycan Thu Oct 09, 2008 18:20

I am from SA and still live in CT ;) and i have friends who have been in Iraq. I spent a portion of my youth in sqatter camps as my mother would go in to help against forced removals. SO it is not that clear that i have never travelled outside of the US :P

by Shaheed Thu Oct 09, 2008 21:52

and you learnt nothing from going into the squatter camps; you believe all the standard US propaganda; we didn't see you at the picket line, if you were so concerned about acting, nor in any other campaign against exploitation and suffering in this country

by Lycan Thu Oct 09, 2008 22:25

i have learned alot (but as this is relative and a simple matter of personal opinion, then in your eyes i suppose i have not ) and don't be so quick to assume ;) afterall your assumption that i was from the US and had not travelled beyond her borders proved wrong. I wasn't aware that your group was the only one of its kind in SA or that you would know who i was and be able to recognise me at any protest or picket line?

by Lycan Thu Oct 09, 2008 22:53

let's stick to the topic instead of questioning my intelligence or limitations of understanding, i have not questioned you personally, i have given my opinion and simply asked questions pertaining to the topic. The first sign of a debate falling apart is when it gets personal ;)

by Shaheed Fri Oct 10, 2008 22:11

Hi Lycan

Sorry if the comments appeared personal; this was not intended. The fundamental question really underlying all of this is that monopoly capital controls the world. we cannot really talk of China as if it is an independent unit. The bulk of the production in China is for capitalist monopolies (of the West); we cannot really talk of Zimbabwe as if Mugabe is the only big bad character around. From 1980 onwards monopoly capital still maintained a stranglehold over the economy and Mugabe was their blue-eyed boy, implimenting structural adjustment programmes. only when the masses started rising did monopoly capital start to consider supporting another horse who can control the masses on their behalf. In the meantime monopolies like Anglo American still plunder the riches from Zimbabwe, immune from the rampant inflation, which only really affects the working class and lower middle class and the rest are paid in dollars.

The US war machine acts for the US monopolies and banks; without the military control of the world, the rule of the giant monopolies are not possible. It is important to also note that the monopolies are not only from the US but from all the main imperialist centres.

If you could go to Iraq I am sure that you will get a completely different view from what your friends tell you. The only people from SA that I am aware of who are going to Iraq are those in the 'security' industry (the second biggest 'army' in Iraq is actually from South Africa, in the form of providing security services - actually a private army)- any view from them about Iraq would be clouded by the dollars they are being paid.

Well, the ship has gone and we welcome the feedback from people. We hope the US soldiers each home safely and that they will at some stage take up activism against what the monopolies are sending them to do. We also had feedback from other members who said that next time we should invite them for tea to explain our position. Perhaps we cold protest and have tea

we are too busy for further discussions on this page but you are welcome to email us at capetownantiwar@gmail.com

by lycan Fri Oct 10, 2008 23:32

no problems ;) lol that could be interesting, protest and tea hehehe

by wife of sailor on USS.TR Sat Nov 15, 2008 06:46 US

Did anything happen when the USS Theodore Roosevelt, came to port in Cape Town? in early Oct? i think its very interesting to see what people think is happening and what they think is going to happen.

my husband had a good time in Cape Town when they were finally able to step off the ship after being on for a month.

they left without causing any problems that i know of.

so what was all this hostile attitudes about?

i understand that the ship was involved in things in 2003 that alot of people in the us wouldn't be proud of.

but i dont think that alot of you know that most of the sailors on the ships, dont get every detail of why they have to do this or that..

they are employed by the US government and if they dont do what they are told to.. then they have to face consequences and some of the consequences are very bad, such as going to court, being put into military jail, lose their jobs, lose their pay, and being kicked out of the military (finding any ordinary job after being kicked out of the military is very difficult)

dont you have military personnel in your countries?

do you agree with everything that they do?

i bet not.. but dont your military members do what they are supposed to be doing, with or without any question.