OscailtAn anarchist analysis of the Dublin anti-loyalist riotA political analysis of the Dublin riots and why nobody saw them coming2006-02-27T19:44:08+08:00Anarkismoanarkismoeditors@lists.riseup.nethttp://www.anarkismo.net/atomfullposts?story_id=2499http://www.anarkismo.net/graphics/feedlogo.gifspot onhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment22942006-02-27T19:44:08+08:00Krossie
“How can we tell the dancer from the dance” - WB Yeats
A short Kr...
“How can we tell the dancer from the dance” - WB Yeats
<p>A short Krossie analysis of the Dublin riots</p>
<p>(Note absolutely a personal opinion have had no real sampling of the WSM debate yet)</p>
<p>Firstly there’s a highly predictable spin/analysis of this which I will address very briefly as in my view it’s far from the real and actual issue. It is, to some extent, a mistaking of form for content. This view is best stated (from a left/republican point of view) as “we” played into “their hands”. The orange men, Jeffery Donaldson etc etc – got “what they wanted”. In fact maybe to an extent beyond their wildest dreams! <br>
On the level at which this argument is pitched I agree totally though I don’t think it’s the fundamental argument. This “Love Ulster” thing was mostly a march of loons (yeah of course I agree there were genuine victims of violence on it)– probably by now a minority within the Unionist Minority. I hate the Orange order and every thing it stands for (sectarianism, sexism, homophobia etc) but my own personal perspective would be that the “deprive them of the oxygen of publicity” argument had merits on this occassion. Either ignore them or use humour – maybe demand that a lesbian/gay/transs orange band be allowed to join or what ever. Before now I personally would have said leave it or subvert it humorously. That would be “my line” on that particular argument.</p>
<p>But the argument above all forms part of an analysis of a political spin “dance” at which every move is choreographed and predicable. The reaction to the march was unsurprising in type though no one anticipated the scale! Yes “we” played into their hands. But they knew that and set out to provoke this reaction. Its almost clock work. It’s no real explanation of a riot though.</p>
<p>Lets look at the actual character of the riot and the reaction especially the unmediated/non media reaction (from bloggs, texts etc). A lot of people tend to mistake form for content. The form was republican as was much of the content. So “the form” wears a celtic scarf sings “the fields of athenry” etc etc.<br>
The more interesting fact as spotted by many but mentioned by few (the Sunday Tribune had a fairly good article on it) in the main stream press is that it was young, male, working class and massively Dublin based. The arrests so far as of Sunday from areas like Ballyfermot, Kilimainham, Finglas, etc.<br>
The Gardi spoke of “a scumbag element from local pubs”<br>
The “blogg sphere” based on a quick survey last night and from comments on indy media speaks of knackers, scumbags, scangers and the other endearing terms that the middle class bloggers have for people from certain parts of Dublin. <br>
Bright young eye witnesses ringing newstalk and today fm again talk of “scum bags out for a fight” “These people aren’t “real republicans”” They have only gone out and ruined everything for the young celtic tiger pups. Our city has been disgraced – by the unfortunate people who actually have to live in it. The content of the riot sprung really from its class base. For once I concur with materialist Marxists!</p>
<p>From my limited observation kids in many specific areas of Dublin face a life time of petty harassment and hassle from the cops. They are excluded in every way from meaningful participation and interaction with society and indeed from the comments in some bloggs are hated in quite a deep and open way. “Society” only encounters them in the robbing of their cars and house. What the obvious outlet – if a chance arises? The simplest and nearest thing available is some form of republicanism. There is no doubt that small elements of republican Sinn Fein, the IRSP and other groups made some advance preparation and might have tried to “direct it” There were a handful of anarchists and politicos making the most of it and fair play to them in my view (Yeah the attack on the PD office was a fundamental attack on free speech but yeah it does do me heart good and anyone’s whose ever witnessed a forced deportation!)</p>
<p>But from what I’ve seen and heard of it and from the more unmediated reaction TO IT - it was, at the end of the day, working class kids and teenagers versus the guards. And for a short period of 2 hours they “won”. Was it a good thing? Well I can’t see the point of burning cars and motor bikes or beating up innocuous journalists myself. But even the most politically motivated and organised riot (which this wasn’t) is emergent and unpredictable. They always have a life of their own and the battles for “ownership” and “condemnation” come after! Also “the result” may be a long way down the line. It was a limited step onto the political stage by people who only were just finding out on the day where Leinster house was. Maybe they’ll continue and develop their political education and not just retreat of “the stage” and back into the flats. Maybe it’s been an education too for those of us who thought we knew something.</p>
Repulican Shambleshttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment22962006-02-27T22:15:45+08:00Scoobyscoobybm_38 at hotmail dot comThis march's disruption was far too well organized to have been out of the blue....This march's disruption was far too well organized to have been out of the blue. It is obvious to all that it has been heavily orastrated and organised. Where do petrol bombs sitting ready in the side streets come form if not organisation. Do the pixies come over night and place them there? the same can be said for the car loads stopped carying baseball/cricket batsAbout righthttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment22992006-02-27T23:18:53+08:00JDI was there on O'Connell st and your report is about right. The riot was directe...I was there on O'Connell st and your report is about right. The riot was directed only in a very small way by a handfull of people who got the idea of using the railings etc as barricades behind which they could retreat. Not rocket science however. Some of these people were middle aged and probably some sort of dissident republicans. However the rest, wee as you say, working class Dublin youths. I didn't see any petrol bombs, I think what has been portrayed as a petrol bomb was actually a piece of burning moped.<br />
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As regards interpretation, i wouldn't necessarily agree with you. The term "scumbags" is not only used used by middle class Dubliners but by all Dubs for youths involved in petty crime, thuggery etc. It is not a term for all working class Dubs. A lot of the people involved in the riots on Saturday come under this heading. Its true that they hate the Guards and wanted to batter them, but they were also just up for a satisfying ruck and a bit of looting. As well as setting cars on fire, they stole things out of them. <br />
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Personally I don't have much time for the Gardai. Their policing of public order events I've been at, eg football matches between Dublin rivals, is almost always shambolic, badly prepared and then over aggressive to compensate. It came as no surprise to me that they couldn't handle saturday's distrubances. Before the march they wre shouting at people and pushing them off the road, they then quickly lost control when they tried to disperse the RSF protest. From a purely security point of view, they could have outflanked the rioters, cordoned them off from the rest of the crowd and arrested beaten them. They didn't because there appeared to be no plan at all on their part.<br />
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Have to agree though that violence was almost inevitable given the symbolism of O'Connell st and the gut nationalism of most working class Dubs. Have to agree also taht the crowds on O'Connell st were by no means all against the rioters until they started looting and attacking property.Petrol bombhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment23002006-02-27T23:39:18+08:00(",)There was definitely one petrol bomb.
Check indymedia.ie video or numerous pi...There was definitely one petrol bomb.<br />
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Check indymedia.ie video or numerous pics.No Use Readinghttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment23092006-03-01T02:18:13+08:00Harlotdrinking at hell dot comI was interested in reading the material until I got to the tag line....and why ...I was interested in reading the material until I got to the tag line....and why no one saw it coming.<br />
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You must have been the only one. Even the Garda went around to all of the businesses in one particular area of O'Connell street and told them what to do in the event of a riot. <br />
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Your head is up your ass and so is your reporting.good reporthttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment23212006-03-04T01:56:33+08:00daniel gurneyshut up.<br />
try reading it again. <br />
all of it this time.shut up.<br />
try reading it again. <br />
all of it this time.Riothttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment23222006-03-04T05:54:19+08:00SeanWhat strikes me about your story is how you explain in detail how young poor Dub...What strikes me about your story is how you explain in detail how young poor Dubliners feel patriotic enough to get a tricolour tattoo or something, etc. Are the other classes in Ireland so unfamiliar with visceral patriotic feelings which are not about being a member of a particular political party that this requires explaining? Maybe you just got carried away and overexplained it. If not, then it's understandable how Ireland could have ended up with a government so patriotically and idealistically bereft as to allow this reprehensible orange parade in Dublin.<br />
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And give the anti-protestors credit: they were acting politically and patriotically up until the Love Ulster march was canceled. After that it was gratuitous violence. Free Ireland.Dublin Riot: No to orange and green sectarianshttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment23252006-03-06T05:55:50+08:00CianJoe Higgins TD's statement in the Dail on Saturday's riot in Dublin - Dail Debat...Joe Higgins TD's statement in the Dail on Saturday's riot in Dublin - Dail Debate, 1st March 2006<br />
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The Socialist Party condemns those who orchestrated Saturday's violence. It was a sectarian riot to prevent the Love Ulster group marching through Dublin. My party believes that the Love Ulster campaign is based on sectarianism and that its activities heighten sectarian divisions and encourage disunity among working class people, especially in Northern Ireland. We strongly oppose the political agenda and the activities of Love Ulster, but we recognise its right to march and protest in the centre of Dublin. The Socialist Party equally recognises the rights of others to indicate peaceful opposition to Love Ulster through disciplined protest, but they have no right to stop others marching as happened on Saturday in Dublin. My party strongly opposes the political agenda of both orange and green sectarians, whether in the North or on the streets of Dublin.<br />
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Let us contrast Saturday's disgusting scenes with those of a few weeks ago, when striking postal workers in Belfast, Protestant and Catholic, marched together up the Shankill Road and down the Falls Road in a united working class demonstration. With the many groups and individuals subjected to disgraceful violence on Saturday, I highlight violent assaults against workers, including migrant workers, in their workplaces, particularly shops, by the thugs who participated. Clearly, the Good Friday Agreement is not providing a solution. It could not do so, since it is the institutionalisation of sectarian division. Therefore, I register my dissent and formally oppose that section of the motion before us.<br />
The key task remaining is forging unity among working class people within Northern Ireland and North and South and, in so doing, ensuring all communities and individuals can live free from sectarian conflict. However, the British and Irish Governments which push new liberal and right-wing economic agendas at the expense of those working class communities are not the ones to show the way forward in this respect.<br />
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I wish to issue a strong, loud and clear warning to senior Dublin City Council officials and anyone in the Government who echoes the call made yesterday by the Dublin city manager. Effectively, he called for the right to democratically organise, protest and march in Dublin city centre to be curbed and restricted. Disgracefully, the Taoiseach echoed that call today. It is disgraceful that the hooliganism of a tiny few, who sought to curb the freedom to march on Saturday, should be seized on by city council bureaucrats to curb our freedom to march peacefully and express ourselves on a whole range of issues that concern ordinary people, workers and working class communities. All, whether it be the farming community, trade unions, community organisations or political organisations, have the democratic right to come to the centre of their capital city and show their cause. <br />
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Just as working class people of Dublin, with one of their great leaders, Jim Larkin, exerted their right to bring their movement, grievances and cause on to O'Connell Street in the time leading up to and during the monumental events and struggle for justice by workers in 1913, we will not tolerate any attempts by bureaucrats or anyone else to prevent our right to demonstrate peacefully and democratically in the centre of this city of DublinNO TO IRISH RACISMhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment25202006-04-16T08:55:55+08:00captain brownrascism alive and well in dublin with these attacks on the northern settlers.
i...rascism alive and well in dublin with these attacks on the northern settlers.<br />
it seems that dublin has some serious bigots about...<br />
get your act together<br />
peaceLove Ulster...? YES...and we would like it back..!http://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment25482006-04-23T03:39:48+08:00UlstersOtherThreeRegarding Love Ulster: "Love Ulster" is of course a ridiculous grouping influenc...Regarding Love Ulster: "Love Ulster" is of course a ridiculous grouping influenced to a large extent by Willie Frazer of FAIR. <br />
Willie is a very bitter man, and while he may well have reason to be bitter, it has left his judgement compromised. Organisations such as FAIR and "Love Ulster" are overtly loyalist and sectarian.<br />
Many loyalist organisations are controlled or heavily influenced by powerful groupings with many vested interests. These include conservative elements in the British establishment & senior military agents & senior civil servants.<br />
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Regarding the use of the term "Love Ulster": What the people who subscribe to this organisation actually love, is partition of the island of Ireland and the fact that they hold sway in six out of the nine counties of Ulster, which enables them to maintain their links with what they see as their fellow UK citizens.<br />
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I doubt that they love the three counties of Ulster which are part of the Republic of Ireland quite so much. In fact if we in the nine counties of Ulster had a vote in the morning on the question of a United Ireland I suspect our Unionist brethren would find themselves in a 32 county Republic, and not quite so inclined to "Love Ulster" in the inclusive sense. Perhaps I will live to find out...!<br />
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Regarding the riots and those responsible: Labelling the people responsible as "disenfranchised and repressed working class" does a great disservice to working people generally. Whether these people work or not can hardly be the primary factor for their decision to riot. Many of the people involved have grown up isolated from the mainstream of Irish society. The two primary things which mark them out from mainstream society are a) Poor education b) Lack of respect for the law...(of mainstream society).<br />
Regarding education: Mainstream society doesn't know how to educate these people and has failed to do so for generations. They try to make amends for their failure by providing comprehensive housing, social welfare and social services. The end result is that whether these people work or not, they are not poor, contrary to popular opinion. The majority of people in Africa are poor...these people are not poor but they are disenfranchised.<br />
Regarding lack of respect for the law: Mainstream society doesn't know how to apply law & order to these people and has failed to do so for generations. They try to make amends for their failure by ignoring low level street crime and circulating them through a revolving door prison system for more serious crimes.<br />
These people have effectively been turned into the children of a nanny state. A nanny state who tries its best but is just unable to control its recalcitrant children. "Treat them like children and they will behave like children". <br />
The only solution is a long term and innovative approach to their education, an end to local authority housing and a move to co-ownership. The disenfranchised and repressed working class need to be empowered and educated to develop a sense of responsibility for their property, health, welfare, and future. <br />
A serious attack on low level street crime in Dublins inner cities and local authority housing estates should be part of a co-ordinated long term solution.<br />
To do nothing is to expect more of the sameā¦<br />
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Resident of Ulster, Republic of Ireland.educationhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment25992006-05-07T03:52:41+08:00fishI had to read to the very end of the last contribution before the crucial point ...I had to read to the very end of the last contribution before the crucial point was made... but better late than never.<br />
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The education system in general, for that matter, the idea of schooling as we know it is not much more than brainwashing. <br />
But if we must train our youth for the monotony of working life by hauling them in from 9 to 4 for years on end, stand up, sit down, don't have an opinion just pass the bloody exam... could we at least LOSE this drivelling treatment of Irish history. ie the history of us v them. There are other, more symbiotic truths to be told about that relationship. <br />
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It is largely this squalid nationalistic flagwaving puke which produces the brainless Flag Tattoo/Celtic/Athenry mentality. <br />
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Incredible how that is what people take away from their experience of school - it must be the national common denominator in educational experience in this country. <br />
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Depressing.<br />
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ps Can anyone point me to a link on Anarchist thought with regard to education ?Re: education -links & more thoughts on rioting youthhttp://www.anarkismo.net/article/2499#comment26002006-05-08T20:15:38+08:00TFirst above commentator requested some links.
Here's two interesting links on...First above commentator requested some links.<br />
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Here's two interesting links on education, both good essays and very critical of the compulsory school system with the second offering an example of a real alternative that existed for a while.<br />
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Against School: How public education cripples<br />
our kids, and why By John Taylor Gatto<br />
<a href="http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm">http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm</a><br />
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The Sudbury Valley School "School For a Post-Industrial Society" by Dan Greenberg<br />
<a href="http://www.spinninglobe.net/carnegiesvs.htm">http://www.spinninglobe.net/carnegiesvs.htm</a><br />
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These two above aren't anarchist writings, but I reckon for all intents and purposes they are pretty close.<br />
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Another link/essay, but I haven't read, but I see quoted quite a bit is by Ivan Illich called: Deschooling Society<br />
For example can be found here: <a href="http://www.ecotopia.com/webpress/deschooling.htm">http://www.ecotopia.com/webpress/deschooling.htm</a><br />
<br />
<br />
..And back to the main point of discussion, the Dublin riots and the disenfrancised youths. I think it is a fair point made above, that not all of these people are poor, but they are certainly disenfrancised and I would say uneducated in the cultural / society sense.<br />
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Yes the mentality of these people is they don't give a fuck whatsoever and I think a fair amount of that attitude or body of emotion comes from the environment that they have grown up in. I have definitely met that characteristic in some young people and they have no interest in anything and tend to like physical things like drinking, the craic, messing, fights, with no thought for tomorrow or even next week. There is always definitely the macho psyche about them. The image of being tough. I know one chap who went out of his way to develop a Dublin accent, so as to project a certain persona. Celtic jersey included. This is not to say, they are not nice people on a one to one basis, but there is definitely some emotional deficit about the whole thing and I can't actually pinpoint what it is or about. My instinct tells me it is lack of support, encouragement, stimulus and a case of imitating their immediate peers. Of course not everyone exposed to the same turns out the same, but like soldiers going to war, a certain percentage always come back pretty much permanently tramatized. In the case of these youth, it is the don't give a fuck mode of living, is where they seem most mentally and emotionally comfortable, because it is what they are used to and grew up with. That sort of chaos and lack of interest in them. They can't handle being the caring, thoughtful and compassiate person, because it's alien to them. And anyway these are the sort of people they would gladly attack and kick their heads in, because these other people seem to have something they don't and which they desire on the one hand, but emotionally can't deal with on the other. And combing all of this with young age and lots of testerone.<br />
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This isn't a full explanation by any means, but I think we are all agreed that the actual people involved in the rights for the craic would be rather apolitical. In fact thinking about anything thing in a rational manner for any sustained period of time is probably something they have never done.<br />
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So a class analysis that looks at this through the financial rich/poor window is not working here, but a class analysis that looks at what is really true wealth is and that wealth is to have grown up or being exposed in either a nurturing, stimulating, caring environment or one that was of neglect, little stimulus and emotionally desolate. <br />
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Afterall that's what an Anarchist society aims for: a rich, diverse, interesting, stimulating, mature, caring, responsible, independent and free environment.<br />
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And to finish up, even diet can play a role in things as recent studies show excess levels of sugar (food is packed with it, as are soft drinks) has very measureable effects and another study in a prison showed that many of the young immates were actually nutriently pretty much starved and lacking in vital minerals. I have known kids where their diet is so poor and it's not lack of money from the parents, is that they have eaten chips most days of their life and very rarely ever have a dinner with vegetables or anything that would be considered healthy and which they won't eat if offered. And it is well known that shops in "poorer" areas consistently stock less fresh fruit and vegetables than other areas. Years ago, I used to shop in one of these poorer areas because I lived near there and I noticed consistently the huge quantity of trashy processed food that was on sale and bought in huge quantities and yet another branch of the same supermarket a few miles away would stock far better quality food. And we can argue that the trashy stuff is cheaper. That's not so. If you buy food in its unprocessed state, like a large bag of spuds, turnips, cabbage, carrots, etc, they are usually much cheaper than the equivalent tinned or frozen versions. And yet it is the junk that is bought and sholved into kids. Is there a link? Yes, there has to be but again it's not all of the story but only part of it. It probably relates to the lack of education by the parents because they easily fall for the marketing tricks and imagery. Who knows, but there is a mindfield of research and questions to be asked. And we don't have to wait for scientific institutions to do these, we could do them ourselves one Saturday, by drawing up a list of questions and going out and getting answers ourselves.<br />
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And just so as people don't think I am totally focused on this group, -again I have noticed the parents of what would seem more well off and apparently better educated people, give their kids endless shit in the form of fast food, sweets, crispy stuff, biscuits and other nicities. There is a generation rising today that are probably not getting the necessary foundation of proper nutrient to last them into their 70s. But the trend here is that it is all the marketing crap, using bright colors, sex and celebrity endorsements that is also having it's effect on people who should know a lot better. So in effect the less education one has, then the less one is probably able to cope or resist the relentless onslaught of total shit coming from the marketing industry to buy everybit of useless junk and junk food and the damaging effects of all this has already advanced signficantly up through the "classes". In effect consumer society is slowly disabling society by sucking out any intellectual and maturity capacities from the population and instead holding them in thrall to the spectale of the moment and the rioting youth just happen to represent the consequences of some of that and the empty lives it creates.